Thats the main difference. Where older transfer cases were gear driven and had only a single gear ratio, modern transfer cases usually use a chain drive and have 2 gear ratios to provide more power options depending on driving conditions. all problems of the 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 On average, this job takes about four hours. Honda CRV TPMS Reset Button Location & How to Reset. On December 27, 2014 while driving away from my house, once again the engine would rev up and the truck just coasted until it engaged causing a loud thump. The manufacturer was made aware of the failure. -Replaced brake lines, calipers, pads, rotors, shocks and more. Replacing the chain is not as expensive as it might seem. One of the most common problems that owners of this truck face are with the transfer case. Typically the condition is not found until there is transfer case damage from running the case out of fluid. When you take off the plug, you shouldnt lose that much fluid. The truck also has a comfortable interior with plenty of legroom for passengers. However, the sound could be related to the transfer case fluid. Transfer case failure isnt the only problem with Duramax engines. Unlike dealerships or many independent repair shops, we are transmission specialists trained to fix issues related to a vehicle drive-train. Inside the transfer case, theres a fluid pump. You can tell if the fluid is dirty by looking at it. On November 17, 2014, I was stopped in the middle lane of a highway waiting to pull into business parking lot, when I accelerated to pull in, my truck moved forward and then would only rev up the rpm's, almost getting hit by on coming traffic on the highway, I coasted in the parking lot, as the rpm's were still up, the transmission engaged and the truck moved forward with a loud thump. In the following paragraphs, we will discuss some common issues with a Chevy Silverado transfer case. Fortunately, this is an easy repair. To find the leak, heres what you can do: After finding the pinhole, youll have to replace the case half. You will have to take off the entire transfer case and replace the seal before putting it back on. Four Wheel TrendsC/O RockTide Media, LLC4441 Six Forks Road Ste 106-205Raleigh, NC 27609. But if theres anything else you want to know about transfer case problems, check this section out: Generally speaking, if your transfer case is not working, youd hear a grinding /metallic sound coming from underneath the vehicle. Solution - Reprogram the TCM with TIS version 6.0 or higher. Theres a seal that separates both the transfer case and the transmission fluid. I keep it clean so I just thought I bumped it while dusting it out. The vehicle has not been repaired. Doing that ensures you keep the replacement costs low. You can troubleshoot your own chevy 4wd or you can solve blower motor problems on your own by following some simple DIY methods. There are some common problems with the transfer case in GM trucks and SUVs. If you notice that the truck is vibrating when youre driving, it could be a sign of a problem with the transfer case. The most common symptom of a transfer case leak is a whining noise when the truck is in four-wheel drive. Here are other related topics worth the read: Does The Chevy Equinox Have A 3rd Row of Seating? Now that you mention it, the vehicle did end up in Auto 4WD on a few occasions, but I thought the condition resulted from an accidental bump or my kids playing in the car. It seems that the housing is made of magnesium and is non similar metals. It is located in between the transmission and the differential. http://1aau.to/m/SubscribeBuy Now at 1AAuto! If you notice any of these symptoms, its important to have the problem checked out by a mechanic as soon as possible. also keeps water out just like a boat trailer hub assy. This platform was used through the 2007 model years and included the Chevrolet Silverado / GMC Sierra pickups, the Chevy Tahoe / GMC Yukon SUVs, and the Chevy Suburban / GMC Yukon XL full size SUVs. Tl-the contact owns a 2003 Chevrolet Silverado 2500. Was told by gm that there was no fix. But the 4WD system works differently. Can I Use H-Rated Tires Instead of V-Rated Tires? We have the ability to test and diagnose problems with pump rub inside of your transfer case and use only quality parts in our repairs. The Truck Fails to Go into a Four-Wheel Drive, Why Do Transfer Case Problems Occur in a Chevy Silverado, Replacing a Chevy Silverado Transfer Case, Buying A Used GMC Yukon, Heres What to Look for! 1A Auto is not responsible or liable for any loss damage (including, but not limited to, actual, consequential, or punitive), liability, claim, or any other injury or cause related to or resulting from any information posted in this video. However, if that doesnt work out for you, you might have to reset the transmission control module. However, despite these features, one must consider the downsides. This morning I tried to switch to 4wd drive and realized it wasn't engaging. To fix this problem, replace the chain. In case there is a leak in the transfer case, the gears will not be properly lubricated and they will start to wear out. In the pictures below, you can see the ears on the edge of the pump and the indentations where these ears sit inside of the transfer case: The pump is designed to float inside of the transfer case and is kept in place by the ears around the edge of the pump. 2001-Up GM Silverado 27 Spline Input NP263HD. One common problem for Silverados is issues with the transfer case. It transfers power from the transmission to the rear and front wheels. We finally had a big enough snow this year to bring the people with 4WD problems out. There is a defect in the transfer case that results in a clip breaking loose and rubbing a hole in the rear housing, allowing the lubricant to leak out, which can cause the transfer case to fail and possibly locking up the wheels in an unexpected manner, causing a crash. Therefore, if one fails, it needs to be addressed as soon as possible to avoid affecting the other. Very dangerous when this happens. U-joints can be a pain in the neck to deal with. (And How to Fix It). Remove the driveshaft, take off the old tail-shaft seal, and then install the new one, and youre good to go. Using special tools and their experience, your mechanic will identify the underlying problem. never replace the hub sensors unless they are with damaged wires. Put the shifter in neutral and as soon as you turn the key and the engine starts, hit the button to shift it back into 2 high. Also please check out the In this video, Andy explains some of those problems you may face with your vehicle, and suggests ways you can repair or replace parts to resolve those issues.Get more tips \u0026 tricks when you subscribe to our channel! Without it, youd have to do this manually. If theres something wrong with the encoder motor, the transfer case will not come out of neutral. After that, locate the transfer case. Regular maintenance keeps Chevy Silverado transfer case problems away. The vehicle was repaired. What problems does the Chevy Silverado transfer case have? Detailed inspection procedures and each unit is factory pressure tested and comes with a no hassle warranty. However, if youre losing transmission fluid like crazy and cant find just where its going, then theres a high chance the transmission is leaking fluid into the transfer case. Its being called the infamous pump rub. Commonly, its just the sensor built into the encoder motor. Can You Put 33 Inch Tires on a Stock Sierra? You will also find out how you can track down the root of the problem and fix it yourself. A professional diagnosis is the best method of figuring out whether the issue is with your Duramax transmission or transfer case. Repair cost approx. The condition is typically intermittent and always occurs at key-up. Sometimes, your truck may refuse to come out of neutral. Like a transmission, a certified drivetrain specialist should complete this rebuild procedure. If the damage is severe, the mechanic can advise for a total replacement of the transfer case. There are several symptoms that can indicate that your Chevy Silverados transfer case is going bad. Well also provide some tips on how to prevent these problems from occurring in the first place. We tossed around the idea that it could be a bad switch. 8AM 5:30PM Mon-Fri, SE Corner Mississippi & Pierce So, the only way to get rid of this annoying problem is to replace the switch itself. It was from a tire distributor that has a number of these particular trucks. Always would act up after a rain or foggy night. many also me when servicing brakes pump a lot of grease into the sensor hole to keep the bearing from wear . Check the fluid level, and pour in some more if necessary. When this occurs it can indicate a problem with the transfer case. General Motors and Chevrolet, NP (New Process) 246 Transfer Case Common Problems and Solutions. Introduced by Isuzu and General Motors, a Duramax engine combines the power of a V12 and V16. If youve never changed it before, chances are the culprit is the fluid. And it won't move, which is intermittent. No specific event led to this incident other than faulty engineering. Since it is softer than the pump, that continual rubbing inside of the case will eventually wear a hole in the New Process transfer case itself. Updated 12/11/08. Two of the most important factors are the year and the model. The problem: affected pickup trucks may have been delivered with a thrust washer that was improperly installed on the transfer case reduction carrier assembly at the factory. 3686 W. 72nd Ave High Gear updates the 246 unit with a metal plate in between the pump and rear case half to reduce friction and vibration. This is a problem that is common in older Duramax engines. There is mechanical equipment found inside the transfer case. After that, any issue youve run into should be gone. It can also be caused by a few other things. That was a lot of information, wasnt it? 6.0L motor, 4L80 transmission, 4WD, crew cab, 6.5' bed. The model numbers within the line of transfer cases include the NP136, 146, 246, 261, 261HD, 261XHD, 263, and the 263HD. At 117,000 miles my transfer case went out leaving me stranded luckily only 30 miles from home. The transfer chain does not stretch. It is located between the differential and the transmission. Cause The Transfer Case Control Module (TCCM) has not received the wake-up call during key-up and has remained in the "sleep mode". The hazards: GM. You can find a brand-new transfer case rebuild kit for roughly $120. Some of the most common causes are: One of the most common problems with the Chevy Silverado Transfer Case is its low fluid level. The noise you hear is the chain rolling off the gear. (Explained). Replacing a transfer case isnt cheap. The vehicle was taken to a dealer and an independent mechanic where it was diagnosed that the transfer case needed to be replaced. Material Needed Flat-blade screwdriver or plastic trim removal tool for un-clipping dashboard tabs Step 2 - Check the dashboard warning light (TCCM) After market parts have been developed to replace the cheap parts within the transfer case to prevent this from happening, unfortunately I did not research this issue prior to having the issue. These Are The Years To Avoid, How To Safely Remove Deep Scratches From Your Car. Nothing happens whenever you try to put your car into four-wheel mode. He had a bad switch causing this exact problem you are describing. The NP208 transfer case is similar to the NP203 and NP205 cases, sharing a number of applications between them, though on the 208 the casing is made out of aluminum rather than iron.. Usage: Chevy Blazer, Suburban, and Tahoe from 1981-1988. If you have been driving your Duramax engine for years, you should always be prepared to counter any of the above issues at any time. See Dirty fluid is dark in color, and it has a gritty texture. If your Chevy Silverado transfer case has any of the above-mentioned problems, here are a few simple things you can do. See The purpose of the transfer case is to direct power to the front or rear wheels depending on whether you are in 2-wheel drive or 4-wheel drive. At Four Wheel Trends, we are passionate about vehicles and love sharing everything we learn about them.Four Wheel Trends aims to be the ultimate resource for learning everything about your vehicle or information when trying to find the right one. An expert mechanic will have the knowledge and skills to find the underlying problem. 1194 S. Pierce Damaged Transfer Chain Either do it yourself or hire an expert. So, whats the best way to tell that this is the case? You may realize a decrease in the Duramax power and performance. Everything I have researched has led to issues in both problems. But even the most reliable vehicles can experience problems from time to time. Noted below are a few of the common side effects of a damaged transfer case output shaft seal that should be replaced. When fluid is leaking from a broken seal, it reduces . Causing thousands of dollars for repair. CHEVROLET SILVERADO 2500 HD Transfer Cases - MP1226XHD Transfer Case Model - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing Vehicle/Engine Search Make/Model Search Make/Engine Search Departments Brands Savings Central Contact Us Help Center Wish List Order Status & Returns My Account Welcome My Account Order Status Wish List Savings Central The hole in the image may seem inconsequential, but the reality is grave. A transfer case comes in handy in a four-wheel-drive truck or SUV. When you go through the above signs of a failing Duramax transfer case, you will realize that most of them are signs of a bad transmission. Here are the frequently reported problems associated with a Duramax transfer case. The transfer case is an essential component of the drivetrain. When this happens, the transfer chain itself will come loose. Fortunately, this is a project that can be carried out in the comfort of your garage. While driving 5 mph, the vehicle hesitated prior to depressing the accelerator pedal. The "service 4 wheel drive" message popped up and the knob to change from 2wd - 4wd light was stuck on 4wheel drive (i turn it to 2wd drive and it showed that it was in 4wd) but 4wd wasn't working. The best way to fix these problems is to have the transfer case checked out by a mechanic. As with the above problem, you cant know whats causing the grinding noises until you open it up. However, Chevy Silverado transfer case problems dampen the experience. Simply put, a transfer case gets energy from the engine and then sends it to the vehicles axles. If the input seal is worn out or broken, there is no other way to fix it except to replace it. . Hence the 4WD system needs a transfer case to work correctly. Well, if you cant find any leaks under the vehicle and the transmission fluid is low, heres a little test you can run to rule this out: To solve this issue, youll have to pull the transfer case and install a new seal. One minute youre going down the road blasting your favorite song, and everything seems to be going well until you hear a terrible humming noise coming from your vehicle. A damaged shift form wont engage the gears. The repair will cost anywhere from $3,000 - $4,000 and the vehicle is currently at the dealer. Sounds like this is a very common problem with gm owners with this type of transfer case. Low transmission fluid is the only problem drivers might spend a lot of time on. Another common problem is a transfer case that pops out of 4WD. Waiting too long can cause further. If you add too much, it will overflow and leak out. Before moving on from the relationship between a Duramax transmission and transfer case, you need to know that these two components work together. Friction and vibration between pump and rear case half wears tiny pin holes in the rear case slowly causing oil to leak and eventually burning up the GM 246 transfer case. These are in the chevy and gmc 2500's and 3500's After a good bit of grief, money, frustration and learning a good bit about the 263XHD t-case issues my tow rig is finally fixed. Well, you might have a faulty encoder motor. Alternatively, if youre fond of working on your own projects, you can try to rebuild the transfer case. The problems started at around 170k when the vehicle was about 11 years old. These both have happened under normal driving conditions. When your car will not come out of neutral, it is likely that there is an issue with the transfer case. At most, you will pay $300 for a new one. Service 4WD Light Comes On 2.2 02. all problems of the 2004 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 While in reverse at approximately 5 mph, the contact heard a rattling noise coming from under the vehicle. So, theres a good chance your transfer case is still in great shape. Sometimes, it is accidental damage that makes a transfer case go bad. Four Wheel Trends is dedicated to advancing the knowledge and education of automotive enthusiasts. Be the first to answer Feb 18, 2018 . It can also result in your car getting stuck. It wouldn't drive in 2H and wouldn't even go in 4L. Were you going down the road this morning only to realize that the transfer case keeps popping out of gear? One thing you should know about it is that it does not burn up like engine oil. An inspection revealed the differential fluid had dropped from the transfer case, which in turn seized up. (Dimensions), 2023 Car, Truck and Vehicle How To Guides - Vehicle Freak. Vibration clip breaks inside transfer case rubbing hole thru rear case half causing loss of fluid and ruining entire transfer case assembly. 04 chev silverado transfer case found out recently that my 04 2500hd with 111000 miles needed a new transfer case - Chevrolet 2004 Silverado 2500HD question. Chevy Silverado transfer case problems can be expensive to fix. I plowed the last 2 days and toggled bewteen 2wd and 4wd with no issues. Be sure to use the correct type of fluid for your Chevy Silverado. Our transfer case has been upgraded and is now ready for reinstall in our '04 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4x4. When it comes to safety and comfort, the Chevy Silverado is one of the best trucks on the market. But it can get pretty messy if youre trying to drive in the snow. For some reason, it worked in 4H so I was able to get it home. You must always check the fluid level of your transfer using a dipstick. When they go and they will all go as many say it can cost with the addition of the pump case half. It may be a wiring issue or a connection problem. Usually, when theres something wrong with the sensor, youll get the 4WD light on the dashboard. If you skimp on timely repairs, you might have to replace the transfer case, which also doesnt come cheap. Even before we can list some of the common problems associated with a Duramax transfer case, we must define what it is. Tl-the contact owns a 2005 chevy Silverado 2500. Not too much further down the road, I pulled up to a stop sign and when I went to accelerate, the truck wouldn't move. Mine only did it when I was going over 45 downhill and not on the throttle for a few seconds. Make sure to pour in the right type and the right amount of fluid. However, when this switch breaks, youll get the service 4WD light on the dashboard until this problem gets fixed. Thank you. Both of these fluid types will degrade over time and should be serviced on a regular basis. If the fluid level is low, it can cause the gears to grind and eventually fail. National Powertrain Remanufactured Automatic Transmission Assembly T260071 Part # T260071 SKU # 327607 3-Year Warranty Check if this fits your Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Free In-Store or Curbside Pick Up SELECT STORE. Truck is currently at local dealership waiting for my approval to replace transfer case which has a pin hole in it and some other parts for $3100. all problems of the 2006 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 As discussed above, one of the most common issues with a Chevy Silverado transfer case is low fluid level. Changing this fluid is childs play. 87. I am an Amazon Associate. The most common problem with the Chevy Silverado Transfer Case is its low fluid level. never replace the hub sensors unless they are with damaged wires. The transfer case is filled with a special type of oil called gear oil. ), 4 Most Common Problems With The Ford F150 (Answered! This is unusual for some inexperienced drivers, but it alludes to a transfer case that needs work. The vehicle was repaired, however the failure recurred several times. High Gear also uses a brand new aluminum rear case half on all units it repairs. That being said, here are eight misfires found on the Chevy Silverado: Noticed that the service 4WD light came on as you were driving? For example, the transfer case might pop out of gear, or you might have noticed the massive puddle of transfer case fluid underneath the vehicle. Rusting is another common issue with transfer case units. Irrespective of the problem you are being warned of, you should never ignore any warning light on your dash. Whether its the transmission, diff, or transfer case, any car that has a problem should be fixed as soon as possible before its taken out to the road. The NP263 can be followed by and "HD" or "XHD". Let moisture in the weather proof connector, corrosion on just about every wire and connections. If you plan on buying a truck or SUV with a Duramax engine, its essential to familiarize yourself with the following Duramax transfer case issues. It is the sole responsibility of the viewer to assume this risk. In some cases, the shift fork breaks down, which results in a truck failing to come out of neutral. This can cause your car to get stuck in neutral or have other problems. After cleaning the transfer case, you should be able to spot the tiny pinhole. In case the Service Four-Wheel Drive Light comes on, it means that there is a problem with the transfer case. The transmission is fine, but there is a stress crack on the outer case. So, in case youre having trouble with your Chevy Silverados transfer case, its important to have it checked out by a mechanic. 608K views 2 years ago #1AAuto There are some common problems with the transfer case in GM trucks and SUVs. If not repaired, a bad transfer case can also affect the transmission, resulting in expensive repairs and replacements. If you drive a GM / Chevrolet truck or SUV built between the years of 1999 and 2007, this is an issue that you want to address before it becomes a truly expensive repair. This will help to remove any contaminants that might be in the system. The average cost is between $1000 and $1500. The contact owns a 2003 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 hd. Cover this product: 4-Year Auto Accessory Protection Plan $18.99 Learn more This is a very prevalent problem in this model truck. As part of this rollout, General Motors used several transfer cases in these vehicles manufactured by New Process. Local dealership replaced a part ($900) and sent me on my way. Chevy Malibu 2008-2011 TPMS Relearn Reset Tire Pressure Sensor, What Is The Chevy Colorado Bed Size? A transfer case plays a crucial role in a Duramax engine. It will test again and reset the message on the next key cycle if the problem hasn't been fixed. . Top Chevrolet Silverado 2500 HD Problems Speedometer or Other Instrument Panel Gauge May Work Erratically 257 people have reported this 142 Fuel Level Sensor Failure 167 people have reported this 92 4WD Transfer Case Position Sensor/Selector Switch May Fail 105 people have reported this 38 Inside Door Handles May Break 86 people have reported this The vehicle was not repaired. After having the vehicle inspected by a repair shop, he was advised that the bracket in the transfer case failed. Search Fixya Browse Categories . A worn-out tail shaft seal will cause that, and it will need to be replaced. May 23, 2010 at 12:44 PM #4 Well, perhaps you have a pinhole leak on the transfer case. Motors corp. ) car or truck again!!. all problems of the 2005 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 Simply put, the sensor switch allows drivers to switch from 2WD to 4WD and so on. If you need a new one, expect to be quoted about $2,500 for a transfer case replacement. Once the transfer case wall is breached, the fluid will begin to leak out. It cost like 35 bucks he said. He stated that the top of the transmission case was cracked. Chevy Silverado Transfer Case Problems and Solutions! And when theres a problem with the transfer case, youll only be able to use the two-wheel drive. However, as we have mentioned earlier, the transfer case on a Duramax is bound to run into some issues. A forum community dedicated to all General Motors truck owners and enthusiasts. You might also notice that the fluid has splashed back on the underside of the vehicle and maybe on anything you might be towing. The Chevy Silverado is beautiful, but its transfer case has unique problems. Keep in mind that resetting the TCM will not solve any problem with the transmission internally. Lastly, make sure to have the gears inspected. Most Silverados come with an automatic transfer case, but there are some models that have a manual transfer case. After that, head over to the transfer case and loosen the nut. Turns out, it was the encoder motor. While excellent vehicles, a design flaw in the transfer case design has caused countless problems over the years for unsuspecting owners. Duramax is one of the most powerful engines in the auto industry. What you will have to do is get it re-scanned for codes and get the code to us. Your mechanic or dealer will see whether its possible to get another half from a salvaged Duramax engine. I'm not sure I had what you described with the failure to engage. Now at 279,000 miles my transfer case goes out again this time leaving me stranded on the wv turnpike. However, if youve determined that theres no pinhole and the vehicle is still leaking fluid, then perhaps you have a broken tail-shaft seal. Leased Cars And Oil Changes: Can You Do It Yourself? The contact owns a 2005 Chevrolet Silverado 2500. I have since replaced both problems but still nothing back from gm. The best way is to take your time.,Set Emerg brake,start vehicle and put into neutral..Engage 4 wheel drive,look at your dash gauge area for 4 wheel drive light to come on..Put truck in reverse and release park brake..,Back up . The first step toward fixing a Duramax transfer case is identifying the root problem. After getting this part replaced, the 4WD light should be gone. many also me when servicing brakes pump a lot of grease into the sensor hole to keep the bearing from wear . https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL17C5A3ED23485B90#1AAuto DISCLAIMER: While 1A Auto strives to make the information provided in this video as accurate as possible, it makes no claims, promises, or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness or applicability of the content. There are several things you can do to fix Chevy Silverado transfer case problems. There are two types of transfer cases: manual and automatic. Instead, it wears out over time. If your Duramax transfer case is misbehaving, there are usually a couple of factors to blame. The dealer stated that the contact would have to pay $1,463 to replace the transfer case because it was out of warranty. This then results in the transfer case fluid to leak out, and causes the gear box to come apart inside the transfer case. The seal that keeps fluid inside the transfer case and thus the transmission is vital for the smooth operation of the vehicle's transmission. I found many forums and solutions on the internet and one on NHTSA. If such damage has taken place, it is better to have your transfer case repaired by a professional. Loss of power to the drive train is not something to ignore, from personal vehicles to public safety vehicles, this power loss could turn into something much larger than some atf stain in the driveway. 1995 Chevrolet Silverado cesspool. The transfer case was replaced at a cost of $ 2,033. Transfer case develops hole from pump inside on my 2004 chevy 2500 hd duramax. In case the shift fork is broken, it will not be able to properly engage the gears and the car will not be able to come out of neutral. A standard Chevy Silverado transfer case costs between $1000 and $1500. They can help you diagnose the problem and recommend the best course of action. When the gears are worn out, they will start to grind and eventually fail. That's exactly what I thought I was doing. Goes into four wheel drive on its on. The years to avoid, How to Guides - vehicle Freak leak out even... A 3rd Row of Seating best trucks on the dashboard until this problem gets fixed never ignore any warning on. It re-scanned for codes chevy 2500hd transfer case problems get the service four-wheel drive light comes on, it is that does. The knowledge and education of automotive enthusiasts toward fixing a Duramax engine fluid... 'M not sure I had what you described with the sensor hole to keep the costs! Cab, 6.5 & # x27 ; 04 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD Duramax replaced at a of. May 23, 2010 at 12:44 PM # 4 well, perhaps you have a transfer... The gear box to come apart inside the transfer case on a regular.! Silverados come with an automatic transfer case is identifying the root of the most important are! 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Or you can find a brand-new transfer case, youll only be able to spot the tiny pinhole your. Truck or SUV this job takes about four hours grinding noises until you open it up it the! Service 4WD light on the dashboard issue with the transfer case costs between $ 1000 and $ 1500 to! The sole responsibility of the problem hasn & # x27 ; bed add too much it! Are some models that have a faulty encoder motor project that can indicate that your Chevy transfer. After that, head over to the rear and front wheels the bearing from wear warning light on your projects. Chevy Duramax 2500 HD Duramax truck owners and enthusiasts yourself or hire an expert mechanic will have to is... The bearing from wear, this job takes about four hours then sends it to the transfer is. Replaced both problems but still nothing back from gm something wrong with the above problem, you have! Will start to grind and eventually fail by following some simple DIY methods and realized it wasn & x27... 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